By Jacob Cordas — Canto has quickly turned into my favorite comic that IDW is publishing. With the second volume, Canto II: The Hollow Men, set to conclude this Wednesday, I had a chance to talk with the writer and artist behind the book — David M. Booher and Drew Zucker, respectively — a few questions. With the thoughtfulness and attention to detail that has defined their comics work, the creators kindly answered them all.

The CANTO Interview with David M. Booher and Drew Zucker

JACOB CORDAS: First, congratulations on an already amazing second volume. What was the impetus for Canto’s latest adventure?

DAVID M. BOOHER: Thank you! Sequels are always a challenge. We knew it would be difficult to follow the first volume, but we’ve had an idea of where the story goes since the beginning. For this volume, I knew the peace Canto found for his people wasn’t going to last. When I found a literal way to represent that with their slowing clocks, Canto’s new adventure was born.

DREW ZUCKER: We had always had a plan for CANTO’s story in broad strokes, but were well aware that we might not get to tell the entire thing if volume 1 wasn’t successful. Luckily having this rough idea of where we were going and the themes we wanted to explore made that easier to figure out.

JACOB: In this second volume, you elaborate on the theme of hope, especially in the way communities integrate myths to either create or destroy hope. As a fantasy story and as a comic book, there is a lot of space to examine this idea. How did that inform your narrative and art choices?

DAVID: The story has always been—and will continue to be—about Canto and his efforts to hold onto hope, no matter how dire things get. Every character, every storyline, every setting serves that idea. So as we tell more of Canto’s story, I always ask myself the same question: How far will we go to find hope, even when it seems lost?

DREW: A lot of the art choices are made based around David’s scripts, once I’ve read through it I make sure that all of the visuals work on their own and then are enhanced by having the dialogue. Conveying any emotion or the reaction you want the reader to have is done through body language (with the tins in particular since they don’t have faces) and with the camera angles.

JACOB: That elaboration on community gives the work an almost collectivist element: an idea that one hero can’t save the day, it is through the way the community engages with heroism that heroes can be possible. What kind of relationship to community action do you have and how do you feel it ties into the overarching narrative you both are going for?

DAVID: As a society, we too often idolize our heroes, not as role models, but as saviors. We expect a single person to step in and save us. We’re not willing to do the hard work to save ourselves. Canto isn’t Superman; he can’t move mountains and stop speeding trains. But he can inspire others to act. And that’s why his people look up to him. We could certainly use more of those kinds of heroes in the world right now.

DREW: Everything David just said.

JACOB: There’s a very American feel to the book, most notably how it engages with its more fantastical elements. With the key reference points you’ve talked about being Wizard of Oz and the works of Jim Henson, do you both think Canto fits into the larger place of American fantasy canon? How do you think those influences and your personal engagements with American mythology and folklore have impacted the book?

DAVID: In his original introduction to Wizard of Oz, L. Frank Baum wrote that he wanted to create a “modernized fairy tale.” In doing that, he recognized he wasn’t going to recreate the fairy tales of the past, but build upon them to make a quintessentially American fantasy story. A hundred and twenty years later, our task in creating a fresh fantasy story was gargantuan. It was made easier by honoring the stories that came before us while pouring our own hearts and passion into a story only we could tell. You’ll see inspiration from Baum, Tolkien, Dante, and even Jules Verne. As for how CANTO fits into the American fantasy cannon, we’ll let the readers decide that!

DREW: It’s hard for me to pinpoint any one thing that makes CANTO uniquely American in its style. I think that sort of thing may just be by virtue of David and I being American. With that being said, one of the best parts of doing this book is taking folklore from other cultures and then reinventing it through the lens of Canto’s world. I think that willingness to dig into the folklore of other cultures and use our own sensibilities has helped to give CANTO a well-rounded feel. I think more than American fantasy canon CANTO fits into the human experience. Everyone around the world has different stories, but most are the same ideas dressed up differently.

JACOB: Canto has always excelled using black space. Issue #3 of the latest series has some sequences that really bring this skill out. How did you both decide to use black space? Where did that choice come from?

DAVID: Black space serves two purposes—one story-based and one practical. For the story, isolating the dialogue into black space gives it more gravity, just as a wordless full page spread lends importance to the moment captured in the image. For practical purposes, it forces the reader to slow down. I’ve heard comic creators tell readers again and again—don’t read so fast! It takes maybe 10 minutes to read a single comic issue, and I think that’s because readers often read the words but skim the art. I catch myself doing it. Separating the words from the art forces the reader’s eye to pause at both.

DREW: I love black space; it means I get a break. I also agree with David though, one of the things we’re all guilty of is just blowing through the art on the page (I’m an artist and it can happen to me). Having those moments to slow the reader down or speed them up when we need to is really important to us.

JACOB: The book consistently uses inset panels to dynamic effect. There’s a brilliant sequence that uses almost exclusively inset panels over one giant image that is able to show one person’s degradation at the hands of hopelessness in issue #4. What is the process of determining the layout for sequences like this? How much of it is in the script? How much of it is a conversation?

DAVID: The credit for the insets goes to Drew. I will call them out in the scripts, but he brings them to life in ways I never imagined. As much as we want art in comics to convey motion, they are static images. If we’re doing our jobs, anchoring an action page in one image with lots of dynamic insets will at least create the illusion of an epic action sequence. We’ll be putting that to the test as we go bigger in future issues.

DREW: That was really a storytelling work around. I’m always trying to find ways to push myself to engage the reader. It’s hard only working with static images, but I’ve found it helpful to paint a full picture for someone and then give them a series of smaller images to follow along with, so that they will fill in the blanks between the main image and the smaller ones.

JACOB: Can you tell us a bit about how your collaboration has worked and what the actual process of making an issue of Canto is like?

DAVID: It’s an extremely collaborative process. Drew and I talk daily. I send him finished scripts and he sends me images of the art in progress along the way. We talk through designs and settings and pretty much every aspect of world building. We send notes to CANTO’s fantastic colorist Vittorio Astone, who usually nails the palette on the first pass. Once the art is done, I’ll do a lettering pass on the script alongside the art. I can probably speak for the letterers out there that they’d much rather have us make major changes prior to lettering. Once Deron Bennett and his excellent team at Andworld Design add letters, off the issue goes to IDW. My ultimate goal is to give our editor David Mariotte as little work as possible to finalize the issue for print. I have a feeling he appreciates it!

DREW: David writes a script, I ignore it, a comic gets made (I’m being cheeky no one listen to me). Our process is extremely collaborative, there is a lot of research I do ahead of us starting an arc and that becomes the touchstone for my design work. David and I then work through most of the designs to make sure they fit the world and serve the purpose that he thinks we’ll need for the story. As far as our colorist Vittorio Astone and Deron Bennett’s team at Andworld Design, they each bring their own unique bits of storytelling with what they do. We’re lucky that we have collaborators beyond David and I who use their craft to do their own bits of storytelling on the book.

JACOB: What kind of adventures can we look forward to seeing in the future with this character? What other themes would you be interested in exploring with them?

DAVID: We just announced Canto’s future adventures in three new story arcs extending into 2022. The first is a three-issue side quest of sorts called CANTO & THE CITY OF GIANTS with fantastic guest artist Sebastian Piriz. Then Drew and I (along with Vittorio Astone and Andworld Design) continue the main story with the six-issue CANTO III: LIONHEARTED and the six-issue CANTO IV: A PLACE LIKE HOME. In CANTO III, we explore the themes of courage and fear. And in CANTO IV, we explore what we are willing to do to ensure we have a place in the world.

DREW: David sent me the outline for CANTO III: LIONHEARTED the other day and gave me the verbal pitch on CANTO IV and I have to say even with it being my own book I’m excited. We have left everything we have on the pages so far and that isn’t changing going forward. Hope is still going to be a key theme, but it’s going to be a bumpy ride for these characters to hang onto it.

JACOB: What would you want people to take away from the book? Is there anything you feel has been misrepresented in the discourse around the comic?

DAVID: I don’t think anyone’s take of CANTO is a misrepresentation, even if it’s different from what we had in mind. It’s like the exploration of stories in CANTO. We might hear the same stories, but we each take we need from them. If there’s anything I hope readers keep after reading CANTO, it’s that.

DREW:: I actually think misrepresentation was CANTO’s greatest strength. I remember when the book came out initially there were people who dismissed it out of hand as just being another all ages kids book. Some of those same people gave it a shot, saw what we were doing and are now fans. Ultimately people’s willingness to move past their initial perception of what the book would be has been one of the most satisfying parts of this whole experience. As for what I want people to take away from it, just have an open mind about the world around you.

JACOB: How have the responses changed from volume one to volume two? Has the audience response impacted the creative process for either of you?

DAVID: It’s been fascinating to watch CANTO II’s release. We have the good fortune of an existing reader base, so we’re more focused on expanding the audience at this stage. Of course, we also have reader expectations now, which create an entirely new set of challenges. I’m happy to say the reader reception so far has been wonderful.

DREW: Like David said: EXPECTATIONS! It’s a blessing and a curse to realize that people actually care about what you’re doing. With that being said, knowing that there are people who love this character and are excited for what comes next for him definitely makes all the extra hours you put in worth it. Neither one of us wants to let anyone who’s investing their time, money, and energy down so it certainly makes you push yourself that much harder.

JACOB: Do you have any previous works that you feel set up for your ability to tell this story? How has your previous creative output led you to this?

DAVID: I wrote a couple of comics before this, but CANTO has been my first major publisher release. Beyond my love of L. Frank Baum, I’d have to say my decades of consuming TV and movies, particularly fantasy from the 80’s, has formed the foundation on which CANTO is built.

DREW: For me personally every book I’ve ever done has lead up to me being able to do CANTO. There are no shortcuts for making comics, for me success and failure are equally as important because if I didn’t have my previous works, I wouldn’t be able to do my current work.

Canto II: The Hollow Men #5 is out Wednesday, Feb. 3.

Canto II: The Hollow Men

Canto II: The Hollow Men
Writer: David M. Booher
Artist: Drew Zucker
Color: Vittorio Astone
Letterer: Deron Bennett
Publisher: IDW Publishing
Canto, a little tin slave with a clock for a heart, broke all the rules to free his people—only to discover that their clocks will stop unless they return to captivity. He and his friends Falco, Rikta, and Veratta embark on a new adventure to save the lives of all their people. Can they lift the curse before their time runs out?
Read It Digitally: Canto II - The Hollow Men

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My name is Jacob Cordas (@jacweasel) and I am starting to think I may in fact be qualified to write this.